Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby dienn » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:52 pm
The value of an opal is whatever price an individual is prepared to buy or sell it for. In this instance, I must agree the wow factor in this particular stone in not apparent.
Gecko has offered his opinion that he don't see any appeal in this stone, and would not spend $25 on it. OpalS may have spent alot more on it because he places more value on it.
Personally (by all means not an expert), I don't think it is rare occurance and is in the way it was cut -eg like star saphires. Often Welos when cut with a high dome and and flat base, and when viewed under a single point light source eg outdoors in the sun - will display this property. I just took a tray outside to have a look -although none of mine has 4 dots, I certainly have a few stones that displays 6 or more dots. When viewed under multiple light sources, these shows many more dots - like a disco ball. Under fluorescent tubes - they display short bars of colour. Some seller will use this tactic of having 3 or even 4 light sources to make their opals look more appealing.
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby OpalSupreme » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:01 pm
hi dienn and thanks for your info.
Yes I understand what is opal value - and there is no way to say exact value of the opal
also I have said more then 2 times that i don't mind opinion - he can say this is 1$ for him
and i know this pattern doesn't looks shocking but if this perfect split it's rare so there should be this factor added to the value
- since patterns are not only about the fire shocking factor
I have posted this because maybe this is not rare at all and wanted to see if i'm right
so if there is more opals like that please show me - if not then this is rare - and this was only 1 thing i wanted to check.
of course I wonder about the name for this pattern.
and yes i have other opals with reflecting light source but no other works this way - more random like you said (I know 2 lamps make 2x more dots ..etc)
but in the sunlight this might looks different.
plus I said before that this pattern depends more on how you cut/finish the stone - and this is the reason why the pattern is rare/unique - because you might cut 100 opals with reflecting light pattern but no one will have perfect mirror split if not cut correctly.
Once more this might be not super shocking/eye candy pattern but what mean 'rare' then ?
I think this is 1 of the most unique effect since there are only 2 opals like that and I don't see anybody who seen this pattern before
- so you are telling me that most rare effect is worth 25$ - sorry but this is crazy.
Something is rare not because of beauty !
do you think people spend millions on paintings because they like it - no because this was painted by some famous artist and it's only 1 painting like this = rare
and this is very simple human behavior - we works this way - if i will give you for free ugly painting but this was made by Picasso you will love it anyway ..
and if this pattern will be official most rare pattern/effect then all of you will love it and adore it
- but this was no reason to show it - reason was to know it understand it and share with the info/knowledge since this is the forum about opals
here is other opal with the effect of reflecting the light source - this is pear shape so the lights are moving totally different way (1 light source)
https://vimeo.com/54215255Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby Voltaire » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:58 am
I believe you have a flagstone pattern which is tightly packed.
The high (or steep) dome makes the colour flash "roll" across the face, since light is not reflecting as evenly as a lower cut dome. Just my take on it.
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby OpalSupreme » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:23 am
Cool
thanks Voltaire.
the flagstone pattern looks like this >
http://www.opalauctions.com/auctions/et ... tem-320984
but the webbing is less visible because is very thin and squeezed also white semi-transparent in crystal opal.
so this ain't official name and I didn't invented
but I like it and I've use it because there is no other name !
Yes I've cut many shapes and different domes and I have understanding of how the fire works - but thanks.
In this dome to get 4 dots on the 'corners' (i know there is no corners
) you simply need to put your light source from above (and the light split to 4 dots)
I'm moving the opals in my hand and the light is coming from some angle that is why I've set the opal to this angle.
so when you have this opal flat with light source directly above you can turn the opal around horizontally and the dots will move a bit but still in the 'corners'.
and after changing angle all the dots change and roll spontaneously flashing with colors and because of the *leopard webbing (inside and back) the colors can be separated between the 'cells' - without the cells this might roll more smooth but maybe without them there will be no 'mirror split' effect ?
In this white opal with 4 dots there is the same type of light split - and I didn't seen the video but when you put the light from the side there will be no 4 dots on the top
this is obvious !?
so how many opals have this type of effect ?
..some but not many and I believe that there is more but since almost nobody know about this they simply can miss that.
in my opinion Welo will surprise us with some new patterns and effects couple more times
- and there is a lot to discover but we need to lOOk make research and analyze the patterns ..etc
and of course share with the info,thoughts and observations
Thanks
OpalS
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby Voltaire » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:49 pm
OS,
Oh-my-gosh, you sure ain't short on words! LOL
I think the dome is the major reason that you see the effect you describe. That's what I was trying to say.
I also think more opals could show this effect if cut to do so. Personally I prefer low to medium domed welos.
I think they perform better then. Just my opinion, though.
Example of flagstone below, which I think is quite similar to what you have: (could be all wrong, though)
http://www.opalauctions.com/auctions/in ... tem-335752By the way, look at the two opals on the top of the picture, do those look similar?
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby Gecko109 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:35 pm
A definitive pattern is something that is part of the actual stone, not something that is manipulated after cutting. If I carved an opal horse, would it be called a "rare horse pattern"? Of course not!
As others have said, the "effect" you are seeing and trying to describe is not a pattern, but rather a result of a specific cut/polish. You cannot polish an ordinary opal into a harlequin, chinese writing, or flagstone pattern. But you can polish an opal so that it seperates light in a certain way such as the case with yours OpalS.
Have enough "experts" expressed here that your opal is nothing out of the ordinary yet, or will you simply discredit them as you have done to me and my opinion?
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby OpalSupreme » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:24 pm
Gecko109 wrote:
A definitive pattern is something that is part of the actual stone, not something that is manipulated after cutting. If I carved an opal horse, would it be called a "rare horse pattern"? Of course not!
As others have said, the "effect" you are seeing and trying to describe is not a pattern, but rather a result of a specific cut/polish. You cannot polish an ordinary opal into a harlequin, chinese writing, or flagstone pattern. But you can polish an opal so that it seperates light in a certain way such as the case with yours OpalS.
Have enough "experts" expressed here that your opal is nothing out of the ordinary yet, or will you simply discredit them as you have done to me and my opinion?
gecko if you will cut 500-1000 stones maybe I will talk to you - but for now you have proof to me that your opal and pattern knowledge is really weak
and you have no idea what you are talking - I will not explain to you why many patterns depends on cutting the opal because this is only waste of time.
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby Voltaire » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:36 pm
OS,
In what way is that one different? Look at the bottom part in the movie - I think I'd call that a flagstone pattern.
The picture I shared is actually of welo material.
The two on the top of the pic have a tightly spaced honeycomb, just not such a steep dome as yours.
They have this rolling kinda flash just like your opal does, but you probably have an even steeper dome making the effects even more pronounced. I thought I'd show something similar (effect wise) with a lower dome for comparison.
I hope that makes sense.
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby OpalSupreme » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:51 am
no I said this to your answer >
'...A definitive pattern is something that is part of the actual stone, not something that is manipulated after cutting....
So how many stones you have cut and examine the fire/pattern ??? 0
but you can't even understand this and keep chat sh't.
so again I have proof to you every time that you are wrong and not even know what is the topic about ..etc
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby OpalSupreme » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:56 am
Voltaire wrote:
OS,
In what way is that one different? Look at the bottom part in the movie - I think I'd call that a flagstone pattern.
The picture I shared is actually of welo material.
The two on the top of the pic have a tightly spaced honeycomb, just not such a steep dome as yours.
They have this rolling kinda flash just like your opal does, but you probably have an even steeper dome making the effects even more pronounced. I thought I'd show something similar (effect wise) with a lower dome for comparison.
I hope that makes sense.
I have link you with the Leopard spot pattern - and this looks like that - so not sure what you mean because the flagstone pattern is something different.
And about your pair - OK i know what you mean - but we talk about light split to 4 dots - not random flashes - so this is nothing like that .
I'll try to make other video with the dots and flashes ..
Greets
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby Gecko109 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:11 am
OpalSupreme wrote:
no I said this to your answer >
'...A definitive pattern is something that is part of the actual stone, not something that is manipulated after cutting....
So how many stones you have cut and examine the fire/pattern ??? 0
but you can't even understand this and keep chat sh't.
so again I have proof to you every time that you are wrong or not even know what is the topic about ..etc
This makes no sense at all. Im not quite sure what point you are trying to make here. Are you trying to imply that definitive, accepted patterns can somehow be cut and polished into stones that otherwise do not have a definitive pattern to begin with?
Secondly, I have never built a residential house, nor an office building complex.....yet I can certainly distinguish between them, how about you? Does one need to actually cut and polish opal to understand the fundamentals of opal patterns? Apparently not because you do cut and polish yet you are seriously delusional about what constitutes "pattern". And just exactly who are you to challenge my knowledge of opals anyway? It seems that with every post, you try to discredit me as someone who doesnt know anything about opals. Please tell me what university you graduated from with an opal degree?
If anyone is fully demonstrating their ignorance of the subject, it is you my friend. The video of the opal you posted has a FLAGSTONE pattern on the back. I do not understand why you wish to call it some other term such as leopard, but even the "leopard" pattern you linked earlier has spots within that flagstone patchwork, and clearly yours does not. Yours is ordinary, but beautiful flagstone pattern.....period.
Im beginning to think you are either a lunatic, or are desperately trying to make something out of nothing. The opal you posted is a nothing.....sorry but true. Yet you very much want it to be something for some odd reason. Heres a tip for you.....if you want a special opal, then buy a special opal.
Dont buy an ordinary opal and try to claim its somehow special. It only cheapens the hobby.
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby OpalSupreme » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:43 am
simple answer - if you cut stone flat the pattern is different ..and if high dome the pattern is different but to know that you have to cut the opal because if you only see finished stone you never see how the pattern changed .
and I don't challenge your knowledge ..you are doing this yourself because each of your answers or thought was wrong.
I don't care what you think because I have this stone here and see you don't so I know what I'm saying - i don't have any reason to lie.;
Again and again i ask you and tell you - main question is not> is that beautiful but is that something rare - and nobody have seen this type of effect so hmmm .. and in the link I have show you with other opal with 4 dots description is > This very unusual opal from Wollo (4.43 ct) displays a perfect diffraction pattern.
- so wait - nobody have seen this type of opal except this from the link which says - very unusual ...
so I ask here the experts but have almost only the 'answers' from the Top pattern expert Gecko that he think something ... and can't stop talking crap even if I said I don't ask you and don't care about your opinion ...
I'm not sure what is your problem and why you try to proof anything - from your post I can only see that you not helping to anyone , you don't add to this forum any good support , you only look for word mistake or misinterpretation even if you have misunderstand something , you don't have nothing valuable to say , your info doesn't help to nobody , you have litter my thread with all this bullsh't and this forum is not for that !!!
I respect other people doesn't matter what they think and anybody can have different way of thinking but you are not doing nothing but attacking me or try to proof I'm wrong -- so keep trying...and if this is your life mission you are very poor man Gecko and really I feel sorry for you my 'Friend'
Good bye
Re: Mirror Light Split Pattern + Value/Name ..etc
Unread postby Gecko109 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:52 am
Im sorry, I was wrong. What OpalS has posted is a very rare (there are only 2 in the world, mind you) and exceptional Welo opal!
My calculation was incorrect.....initially I said the stone should have a value of around $25.....after careful consideration I have decided that its probably much closer to around $7,500.
How did I arrive at that price? It was easy.....there are only 2 opals like that in the world. A person would be very fortunate to be able to just see....let alone own something so magnificent!
and it worked, he went up only a bit and gave up (probably seen it as cheap stone for jewel he was making or something like that)
...so i don't know if this is tha case - but in my opinion if there are 'cells' /webbing in opal then no matter if the fire 'reflect/mirror' light source or no the fire will fill the 'cells' but not reflect them (I mean maybe) ..