Plume Opal

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PinkDiamond
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Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

I almost forgot to snag this one and it's the most unique one we have on Welo material. :D

Repost: Can this be a plant or leaf transferred image?

opalethiopia wrote:I just added this opal to the $1 no reserve listings... I can't explain what I see inside of it. It looks identical to some sort of leaf or plant. I was talking with brightlights and I do believe I might have something interesting here. Take a look. I took a few new photos.. well the best I can get.
Here is the listing number 253045

PlumeOpal1.jpg

PlumeOpal2.jpg

PlumeOpal3.jpg

PlumeOpal4.jpg

PlumeOpal5.jpg


Voltaire wrote:What ever the cause of that pattern.. It's FRICKIN' amazing!!! :shock:


PinkDiamond wrote:Omigosh! I've never seen anything like that in an opal before, and that is really amazing! Are you sure you really want to sell it??! I supposed it could be opalized plant matter, but whatever it is, it's FABULOUS!!! :shock:


brightlights wrote:It looks like a plant, but not... My leaning was that it might be a PLUME. Have you ever heard of plume agate?

Here is a nice cab that has a good example:
InclusionsAgateBLs.jpg
InclusionsAgateBLs.jpg (59.85 KiB) Viewed 6449 times

A Followup link with some good information for agate inclusions:

http://www.agateswithinclusions.com/About-Agates.html

So.. Ok MAYBE a plume. Would that be IMPOSSIBLE? I don't think. Agate and Opal have some common linage during formation. Mainly they are both silica based only technicals seperate them. In the above, a priday plume agate thunderegg, volcanic in some nature. (Not all opal, but the Welo seems to be.) The plumes are inclusions usually caused by iron or manganese oxide entering the agate while it is forming still in a gel state. So my hypothesis is that the plume formed in the opal while in a gel state just like in an agate. THEN either the plume was dissolved and additional opal formed leaving an outline of the plume or the oxide slowly migrated out into the opal and eventually new opal fill the space, again resulting in the outline. There is not much color in the stone except the pseudomorphed plume so maybe it did not align the opal color lattice correctly until the pseudomorph took place. :?:

If this is the fact, it may be a very unique and extremely rare piece. I've never seen anything like it before. I think the closest thing i the opal from Opal butte, Oregon. There you have a clear opal base with plumes and inclusions that make some wonderful scenic opal. Here you have similar and then a pseudomorphs of the oxide back to opal. The only other opal pseudomorphs that pop into mind are the famed Austrailian "Pineapples" that are THOUGHT to maybe be pseudomorphed opal after Calcite after IKAITE!!!!

Anyone have experiences with psudomorphs or plumes that want to expand on it?


jenador4 wrote:That is one beautiful specimen. It looks to me like an underwater image. It's a pity your selling it as it really is unusual and you may not ever find another one similar again, on the other hand I might place a couple of bids myself!!


opalethiopia wrote:Well no I am not exactly sure I want to sell it haha... I don't think I am going to remove the listing though. I just wish I knew what it could be. I really doubt that it's a fluke pattern that happens to look like a plant or leaf. It is too uniform to be a fluke.

I hope the buyer will know something about it or will have a knowledge of the sort. I am really glad that others think that it's a rare and cool characteristic as well.
I am thinking that I agree with you brightlights... It does make sense that this could have formed while still in a gel state. It does look almost identical to the plume agate photo.

Maybe I should take if off the auction block and send the stone to someone. Are any of you qualified to examine a stone and that would be able to determine anything at all using a microscope or different instrument?


PinkDiamond wrote:I would be more than happy to put it under the microscope, but mine's max is 40x, so I don't know if that's enough, and I could give you a report on what I think I see, but I've no way to take a shot of it under the scope. :?

But I could even ask the ISG to scope it and give us pics, if you think you might like to go that route. Don't know if they'd charge us, or how much it would be if they did, but I would be happy to ask if you're interested. I was going to go bid on it, but if you're not sure you really want to sell it, I don't want to have another incident where I place a bid and the seller decides to just pull the auction and disappear. :roll: I don't think you would do that, but I want to make sure you want to sell it before I put myself in that situation again. You know; once bitten twice shy. ;)


opalethiopia wrote:Hey Pink, I sent you a message about the other testing and having you look at it... I'm thinking it might be a good idea. I WILL sell the stone on here no matter what though.


brightlights wrote:
opalethiopia wrote:Hey Pink, I sent you a message about the other testing and having you look at it... I'm thinking it might be a good idea. I WILL sell the stone on here no matter what though.



Maybe modify the auction that the stone will be sent for testing before the winner receives it or something? I started as the first bidder and am currently the high bidder, so I do not have any problem if you wish to modify/suspend the auction for further testing if it will show back up in the future.

I like the idea of the ISG scoping it, and would even kick $20 into the hat if they charge for the service. I think there maybe some scientific study worth doing here on this piece. The other person that may have some abilities is Gemaddicts... He is into inclusions and such. I PM'd him, so maybe he'll pop in and give a look at it?


opalethiopia wrote:Ok that sounds like a deal. I will suspend the listing. I will send the stone out to get scoped and we can all learn something!
I will list the stone as soon as I get it back. Thank you for bidding on it so it's pretty fair I guess to send the stone out. I am being honest and I am glad I have some support even though the stone is already listed.
THANKS!


PinkDiamond wrote:I doubt anyone would have a problem with it being pulled to get more information on it since you're going to relist it, but I would tell any bidders you already have that you will notify them when it goes back up for sale. ;)


brightlights wrote:I'm cool with it.

Can I recommend a name for the pattern? "Bright Plume Opal "!! :lol: Ok.. Maybe I don't have to get part of my handle in there, but at least I didn't ask for "Steveite"... Maybe just "Plume Opal" will work if that is what it tests out as. :D


PinkDiamond wrote:Yes, I have the stone at the moment, and it's fascinating to look at under the microscope. I asked James Dumar about whether or not there could have ever been plant matter in there, and he said no, and that it's possibly a thin film of mineral oxides. I'm hoping I'll hear back from a gemologist friend of his in the UK who is writing about these, so hopefully he can tell us exactly what it is.

In my search for information I came across one for sale, but it didn't look nearly as impressive as opalethiopia's, but with only one picture it's hard to tell because if you rock this one from side to side, one side disappears while the other side lights up, and they go through all the spectral colors. So it's hard to get a pic of both sides lit at once, but even if the other one for sale has more plumes, I still think this one is more spectacular, and they are rare. The plumes are easily seen through the flat back side of the cabochon, but not so much through the top. I've tried to take pics of it through the microscope, but I'm having no luck at all. Of course, that's nothing new. :?

Much thanks to James for his reply to my inquiry. I had enough dumb questions to sink a ship. And BL, Plume Opal sounds perfect for it, but to get it you're going to have to duke it out with a lot of bidders! :lol:
PinkDiamond
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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

Rockranger wrote:Simply irresitable,Thats what i would call a one in a million gem.


brightlights wrote:
PinkDiamond wrote: And BL, Plume Opal sounds perfect for it, but to get it you're going to have to duke it out with a lot of bidders! :lol:


Pink, When I first saw it, I knew it was special... I COULD of kept my mouth shut and not said anything to Opalethiopia and just hoped it stayed low. But, even if I'm not selling, as cutter to cutter, that would not be the karmatastic thing to do. :wink: I can only hope that one of two things happen... When it goes back on the block I can outbid (Doubtful) or I find my own while cutting my rough. :D

I'm also looking forward to the final report on this and/or study/article. On a brighter note I had a friend of mine (ISG Registered Gemologist) stop by to deliver some goods and give me a Pre-Christmas trunk show... I shared some of my opals and he loved them. See, Karmatastic! 8)


PinkDiamond wrote:Ginge, he posted pics of it in the first post, and I can't get pics through the scope. Just can't figure out how to get what I want to show, and without the proper equipment to hold the camera, it's impossible to shoot without the camera moving some. I'm disappointed, but the ISG is willing to shoot it for us if we can wait until after Dec 17th, when the DSN lawsuit is supposed to be heard. So opalethiopia will have to tell us if he wants me to forward it on to them, and who knows; maybe Robert will be so amazed by it he'll won't be able to resist scoping it right away, and clicking off some of his fantastic microphoto shots. At least we have an opening to get it done professionally now, and at no cost. :D

BL, you'll have to PM me and tell me who your RG friend is. Too cool watching people's faces light up when you show them this stuff. ;)


opalethiopia wrote:Ok... well first of all.. brightlights haha... yes I did know that this opal was special as you can read in the description of the original auction! lol... I just didn't know that others would see what I saw. I am very happy that you said something to me though :)
Hey pink.. I finally get back from Arizona tomorrow night! FINALLY!!! I have been slacking on emails and messages while I am here :(
I don't see any problem with you keeping the stone. I guess the whole reason I sent it to you was because you offered and WE ALL need to get pics of it and see what it's all about once and for all!
Hopefully when I relist the stone, I will have a ton of info to add to the auction. I guess I could just copy and paste some of the conversations we're having or I could just copy and paste this whole forum?

I am very happy that this stone is rare. I didn't think that there was any actual plant matter inside the stone because like you said.. the stone is very clean and pretty clear.
Hologram.. pseudomorph... who knows! Hope we will find what we need :wink: and who gets to name it???? Me? or the Buyer??? lol

Here is one more photo that I found on the computer I brought with me... you can kind of see the red spectrum of color on the right hand side.

PlumeOpal6.jpg


GemAddicts wrote:I can tell you it is more then likely a plume, just like those in plume agates. I have seen this before, albeit very rarely, and never in Ethiopian material, it is Oregon material I have seen it in and somewhere else I can not think of off hand. It is the same causes as that in plume agates. There is also another type that has crystals of another material, can't remember off hand what it is though, sorry, that the opal either formed around or it grew in the opal. They come from a specific mine in Mexico. This is not plant matter nor plant material though, couldn't hold up under the temps while opal formed. As to the exact metal oxides causing it, I have not a clue sorry, that would need to be tested.

If need be I can also offer my photographic services, free of course, to get detailed microscopic images of it. I have the means to capture from 3.5x-268x(or something like that) on a full size specimen using a top of the line, best for photographic purposes, Leica Wild M420 PhotoMakroSkop, thin slices I can capture up to almost 1000x. I can do this using either a P&S for web images, or a full specialized FoveonX3 sensor(producers truer colors, sharper images, and more finer details then Bayer sensors which are those used in all digital cameras except for some Fuji's, digital SLR for full high resolution true quality 14MP images. Some examples of my work:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitaldev ... 204435261/
and bottom of this section:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitaldev ... 39/?page=2


PinkDiamond wrote:So what causes the plumes in agates Jamey?! And what would cause a metal oxide to take such a unique form if there was never plant matter or bacteria involved? I'm so curious about this it's driving me nuts waiting for answers. :?

And thanks for the offer; I'll get with you if we need more pics of anything as we investigate this, but RJ has offered to shoot it for free, and I took him up on his offer. Will keep you posted. Thanks!! ;)


NovaScotiaCreations wrote:Hi all,
I was "just" about to post a pic of my "fluffy opal" I mentioned in another thread when I saw this thread, and thought I should probably just post it here as you are already talking about organic components in Welo opals.

I was speaking in depth in that other thread (enough to write a book, lol) about opal structure, make up and how it grows, and I am feeling strongly that there is a very large organic component to Welo opal's growth in nature, and specimins like the one you have here makes me really wonder just HOW these opals are REALLY formed!

I think that the process even though "similar" in chemical make up to Lightning Ridge type material is drastically different in the way it grows and is formed, and who knows, maybe it actually "relies" on some organic component or electrolyte to actually form in the first place in Ethiopia!

I'm seeing more and more "roots" and other organic compounds and structures in the parcels of Welo I receive, some to the point that the stone is almost ALL a big inclusion of some kind of organic "stuff", such as in the case of what even looks like "fur" in this opal I'll post a picture of here if you don't mind.

I'm NOT trying to steal or hijack your thread, sorry to interfere, I just wanted to contribute to what your discussing, and maybe we can all eventually have a better understanding of how these beautiful patterns like the ones you have in your stone are formed.

I'm actually noticing 2 types of these patterns or "inclusions if you want to call them that, ones that look like a plant "pattern", almost as if the plant or organic material opalized inside the stone itself, and others that act like amber, trapping the root or organic thing in the opal and freezing it in time forever.

Yours looks like a plant pattern that may have been caused by some plant component that opalized, leaving only the outline behind in platelets of color, or, I could be way off base, and it's something completely different, like the way crystals "creep" along a surface as they grow. Who knows!

All I know thus far is that they are ALL beautiful, as is your stone you displayed here in this thread, and for those of us who "need to know", it's gonna drive us nuts until someone figures it out with an electron microscope or something!

I'm currently converting my high powered microscope into a dark field microscope, so hopefully, I can eventually get some good pics of these structures really close up at 42,000 power or so.

Below is a picture of a plant root in a client's opal that I'm currently carving for him, as well as the "fluffy opal" that I'm still wondering what the heck the material inside it it, it "may" be some kind of asbestos type mineral even and not organic at all, I just don't know!
Thanks for letting me post here and for showing us that beautiful stone!!

Chris ;)

Below, root captured in large Welo crystal opal:
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Below: "fluffy" organic component captured in a Welo crystal opal

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The fluffy thing below shown through inspection microscope:
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*Source location must have removed the images; broken links*


brightlights wrote:fossil squid alien? :lol: don't get tooo close!!! :shock: Jk...

It is all quite perplexing because I want to say that it shouldn't be any organics as it should be formed after the volcanic action, but I've seen at least one other that looked like root also... Of course, you know, Len Cram argues that opal can form in little time and I read somewhere of cases where fence posts were supposedly opalized, etc... So who knows, maybe it was plant material in the ground that got trapped by the opalizing event long after the volcanic action and before it was all buried and turned into what looks like a desert? I'm rambling now, so please don't take any of the above as fact, just wondering....


PinkDiamond wrote:
NovaScotiaCreations wrote:I think that the process even though "similar" in chemical make up to Lightning Ridge type material is drastically different in the way it grows and is formed, and who knows, maybe it actually "relies" on some organic component or electrolyte to actually form in the first place in Ethiopia!


Lightning Ridge opal is opal-A type made up of silicon spheres of fairly large size in comparison, and they're stacked rather like cannonballs causing them to act like a diffraction grating and spread light into prisms. Ethiopian hydrophane opals are opal-CT, having tridymite and cristobalite in their structure, which has angles instead of smooth spheres; which is what I think allows it to absorb water through capillary action. I don't think there are 'tubes', per se; I picture it more like a the way bone is 'porous'. Opal-C, which contains tridymite, can morph into opal-CT, which has cristobalite, so anywhere in between you've got both, depending on how much the geological conditions it forms under heat up, and with more heat it will further morph into quartz, so I'm thinking it's the stage the stone is at that determines whether or not you get orange peel effect while trying to polish, which also explains why it doesn't happen in all Welos. And I keep seeing information saying that the dark colors are not exactly hydrophane, which must be why they take so much longer to absorb liquids. If I've got any of this wrong, please correct me James or InnaGem, who have both steered me toward this information. ;)

NovaScotiaCreations wrote:I'm seeing more and more "roots" and other organic compounds and structures in the parcels of Welo I receive, some to the point that the stone is almost ALL a big inclusion of some kind of organic "stuff", such as in the case of what even looks like "fur" in this opal I'll post a picture of here if you don't mind....

...I'm actually noticing 2 types of these patterns or "inclusions if you want to call them that, ones that look like a plant "pattern", almost as if the plant or organic material opalized inside the stone itself, and others that act like amber, trapping the root or organic thing in the opal and freezing it in time forever.


That's definitely different from opalethiopia's stone Chris, and you never know what an intrusion of silica that forms opal will encase. OE's is so transparent I could see the texture on the glass plate under it in darkfield.

NovaScotiaCreations wrote:Yours looks like a plant pattern that may have been caused by some plant component that opalized, leaving only the outline behind in platelets of color, or, I could be way off base, and it's something completely different, like the way crystals "creep" along a surface as they grow. Who knows!


That's what I thought too, but pros like James Dumar have assured me that no plant matter was ever in this stone. They're saying it's metal oxides forming the pattern and we're waiting patiently to find out how it does it.

NovaScotiaCreations wrote:I'm currently converting my high powered microscope into a dark field microscope, so hopefully, I can eventually get some good pics of these structures really close up at 42,000 power or so.


WHAT??? :shock:

NovaScotiaCreations wrote:...the "fluffy opal" that I'm still wondering what the heck the material inside it it, it "may" be some kind of asbestos type mineral even and not organic at all, I just don't know!!


I believe asbestos is fibrous and not 'fluffly'. If anyone knows of other forms I'm open to hearing about them. And there's a whole experiment here on dying them (think you mentioned that in the other thread), and they were done in various colors, and one (blue) was cut by a member (gosh, who did that please - anyone?), and the color was uniform throughout, and the spectral colors could still be seen through the colored base material. Pretty cool huh? We decided to start a fad with designer opals to match your outfits, your car, whatever! :lol:


NovaScotiaCreations wrote:That's all great stuff Pink!

I'm always open to everyone's opinions and research, I don't know everything, and never profess to! That's why I never mention hearsay, i only say things that "I" myself have observed or discovered.

I agree with what was said about how one hole can have completely different type of structured material than another hole, there is alot of gemological and geological diversity in Africa, and i also think the reason why I am observing these "tubes", while others have and others have not is because there are TWO types of formations in opal, there is the nitty gritty microscopic stuff that you are speaking of, and then, there is the "arrangement" of that formed opal material into a "structure" once all that chemical composition has come together, that is why there are things trapped in it, and also why I have actually had a few pieces that appeared SEDIMENTARY in formation, having actual sheets of opal, one laying on top of another. They were like color bands, only with separation between them, and cutting it destroyed it, as it literally fell apart as I did so!

It was like opalized liquid hardened and formed, then another event caused a 2nd, then a 3rd ect process to happen, one on top of another. Has anyone else ever observed this type of Welo opal? I tell ya, I've been getting some WEIRD stuff lately!

Thanks again for the info!!
Chris ;)


PinkDiamond wrote:Glad you enjoyed reading about what I've learned reading papers written about this stuff Chris. We only learned about Aussie opals in school, so all this is quite a revelation to me and I find it fascinating.

NovaScotiaCreations wrote:It was like opalized liquid hardened and formed, then another event caused a 2nd, then a 3rd ect process to happen, one on top of another. Has anyone else ever observed this type of Welo opal? I tell ya, I've been getting some WEIRD stuff lately!

Thanks again for the info!!
Chris ;)


I believe you described pretty much the way it happens. Good observations! ;)


GemAddicts wrote:The inclusions are mostly mineral based. It can be seen, dendrites and plume type inclusions, in Virgin Valley material, Wyoming material, Oregon material, and obviously Welo, as well as Mexican. This is not really a "new" thing. The plume or dendrite with the POC is a bit unique as typically they do not display POC, it looks more like there was a dendrite or plume that some how decided to morph or disintegrate or something leaving behind the "pocket" from it which in turn got replaced by POC much like you see in petrified dino bone cellular structures and even in ammonites. But it is not organic, not as in plant matter. I have yet to see proof of actual plant matter in any opal. Silicon, which is what opal is comprised of, has a melting point of 1687°K (1414°C or 2577°F), no plant/organic matter is going to hold up nor survive these temperatures. If the opal melted again after it had already solidified and became opal, upon remelting it would now become a silica based glass and no longer an opal. That is why there is actually no such thing as reconstituted opal technically, because technically it would be opal/silica glass, just like when quartz is reconstituted it becomes quartz glass. But all kinds of other materials could withstand it, like they do with agates and jaspers. To keep it simple, look at opal as an agate/jasper, same basic base material, in fact there are tons of material that is actually a combination of chalcedony and opal, like much of the opal material from Peru for example. Agates/chalcedony/quartz can grow with, in, beside, etc. opal.

I am not sure Pink which causes what off the top of my head, but I will look through my notes and materials and find out for you. I know iron can be one cause, in fact, there is a material that is natural agate and a man developed a technique of causing iron based dendrites to actually grow into the agate/quartz material! I forget the name of it off hand, sorry. But he grew dendrites into the material using a specialized solution somehow.

Minerals and such morph, pseudomorph, degrade over time, etc. My hypothesis is that that is what happened in this case and then the POC filled the voids like they would have the cellular structure in bone or even wood. Even these puffy things can be mineral/crystal structures with a higher melting point then the opal, so they would remain intact through the entire forming process. Another example is Mexican opals, even the Rhyolite can often be grown up inside the opal itself and look like wood and other organic inclusions, but they are not.

I will try to get some pics of the dendrites and such in opals I have here from Mexico, Virgin Valley, and Wyoming, I don't think I have any Oregon material with it but I will check. For now here are some poor examples, but only ones I had handy and are more just snapshots I had for other reasons. But gives you some ideas.

VV With Dendrites, odd blue around the dendrites, but it is opaque.
Image

Dendritic opal from Wyoming, poor example as can't really see the dendrites in this piece, lol, but I do have transparent with the same type dendrites and plumes seen in agates:
Image

Mexican with odd fuzzy stuff and rhyolite inside of it:
Image

These are all reconstituted quartz, aka quartz glass, that was designed and made to fool people and was being sold as moss agate, lmao:
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Dendrite in Montana Agate:
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One last, better one, a Mexican precious opal, looks like plant material or something, but it is rhyolite most likely, or another mineral.
Image
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PinkDiamond
ISG Registered Gemologist


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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

Rockranger wrote:Chris, funny you mention this I am currently looking at one you are describing in layers ,2.The POC is diff in each section,with a distinct line,i well see if i can capture it on cam.I allready cabbed it.

RRlayeredWelo.jpg

RRlayeredWelo1.jpg

RRlayeredWelo2.jpg

RRlayeredWelo3.jpg


NovaScotiaCreations wrote:That's interesting Rockranger,

I've noticed that there seem to be 2 different types of layering, the ones that are simply color bars, and the ones that are actually physically separated between layers.

I ONLY know the latter exist by having only ONE piece of that material, (maybe separation between layers is VERY rare?) so otherwise, I would have thought that the process ALWAYS bound one layer to the next, but as I said previously, I think that the reason that happens is because of time. Previously, I always though color bars were formed internally in one lump of opal, but I'm now rethinking this process.

It makes sense that if there is a time gap between the next event that creates a layer of opal on top of the next, then not only may that be the reason why the next layer doesn't seem to bind to the first one, (as the first one has fully cured into a solid by then), but also, it may explain why some of the embedded objects like the roots and such seem to be embedded right on that color bar, or 2nd layer.

Who knows, maybe there was an opal sitting there underground, and then the rainy season comes, washing more mineral and electrolyte rich liquid into the nodule crevice where the opal was previously formed, carrying along with it organic debris, such as tiny root fragments ect, and then the process of opalization takes place again as the rainy season subsides.

See, I'm one of those people who don't believe that opal MUST BE formed over MILLIONS of years like some do, I believe that opal can spontaneously grow or be formed immediately or over a very SHORT amount of time, even as little as a few months, if the conditions are right for it to do so, and that it actually WOULD be possible for opal to grow in almost sedimentary layers caused by things like a yearly rainy season such as what they have in parts of Africa, with each season depositing a new layer of opal on the next. Sounds crazy, but if Len can grow them so quickly, in a matter of months, then I believe that nature being far more advanced than man, could do so as well.

Possibly the reason that hydrophane opals are formed in the first place, and why Ethiopian opal in general is so diverse, and so different no only from all other opals, but also from it own species may be because it is SO young to begin with. Possibly, the older an opal is in the ground, the more stable it becomes in general.

Australian opal is obviously VERY old, since fossils are found opalized regularly, in fact, I'm sure that most if not all Australian opal comes from fossils of one type or another (except for the matrix types) so the question is, "is there any NEW opal growing in Australia, or is the main opalization period over"? Maybe the conditions were ideal sometime shortly after the fossil age for growing opals there, so most of the opal was formed then, but I'm guessing that it's still forming in the ground there as we speak, and it may not be taking millions of years to do so! In terms of the time frame it takes to form opal, the answer may be both very quickly, AND millions of years, maybe both situations occur, thus giving different opals with differing qualities?? Sounds logical to me, why argue over everything....lol!

As you know, some people take the formation of opal theory SO far, that they try to use it for the basis of the argument about how old the earth is, and whether GOD created all this in the time frame the Bible says, or if the earth evolved over billions of years!

What GemAddicts stated about the difference between opal and glass is true, just think of it like having a box of crayons of all different colors, which are all made of "wax", and if you melt them all together in one lump, you still have "wax", but you no longer have the color play of all the different separate colors of each crayon, now, they are all bound together in one colorless lump! Even though you still have the same wax material as when you started, it just isn't in the same "structure"! There ya go, the moral of the story is that un-melted crayons are MUCH more pretty...lol.

The same is true of opal. I have actually heated opal to see if it "WAS" possible to have it "mend itself" in some way from heat being applied to it, and my observations were similar, it just loses it's color, and turns a kinda muddy beige, not to mention any little cleavage inside it will actually crack just before the melting point, and it will usually melt in a fragmented state. I did in fact put some opal in a small kiln meant for glass making, (forget the exact temperature) and while I was able to change the shape of the piece of opal by melting it, it didn't just melt into a flat pool of glass, it kinda drooped a bit, and then went all weird and brittle after-wards, again, probably because of improper annealing after-wards to ensure it cooled properly and stayed stable.

What I find fascinating about opal, and gemstones in general, as being a "chunk" of mother earth, who is actually an "electrical entity" herself, is that there is an electrical component to the formation of opal, and all gemstones in general, which is actually one of Len's secrets, the electrolyte is what the bigwig scientists were missing as a key to opal formation, without the properly charged particles having the proper polarity, opal won't form, so it's very interesting to me at least that without a "bioelectric" process, a gemstone cannot be created, and after it is created, they still possess many electrical properties, most commonly piezoelectric qualities, such as what is observed in quartz crystals, being the most well known example of this.

Another interesting example of the retention of electrical properties after crystal growth and formation is in tourmaline, it actually polarizes itself with a constant electrical charge that is measurable at each end of the terminated crystal, like a small bio-electric battery! I only refer to it as "bio-electric" because in my view, the earth is alive, while many people would disagree with that statement...lol.

Anyhow, back to the opal thing, what I'm blabbing about is all relative, as currently, I'm experimenting with the electrical properties of opal, especially Welo opal, and the interesting thing is the switch between being a conductor and an insulator depending on what kind of water content it has, (the whole internal resistance changes as well) I'm not sure as of yet, but I'm starting to suspect that there is some kind of voltage generation during the transition between wet and dry in this material, as I managed to actually "measure" it on my oscilloscope, but ONLY one time thus far, I haven't been able to repeat the same results, and I'm wondering why!
The very interesting part is that it was not a straight DC voltage, but rather a high frequency AC voltage that seemed to be generated by the opal, and everything was completely shielded from any external interference, so I KNOW it came from the opal itself, I'm guessing that as water is lost or gained, there is a piezoelectric effect similar to quartz when it is compressed or put under pressure, possibly the same pressures are being created inside a piece of Welo as it expends or contracts when moisture is lost or gained, thus creating the piezoelectric effect, I dunno, have to research it more!! Perhaps temperature changes play a role as well.

I'm sure most people could not care less about any of this, but I find it intriguing, and electrical properties is something that most people do not consider when experimenting with gemstones, but who knows, we may just find another completely different use for opal, such as quartz and other minerals in industry, as it is made of the same basic silicon dioxide material!

Chris ;)


Rockranger wrote:Dr Frankenstein, :shock: how should we prepare the specimen :lol: :lol: :lol: Chris your mind has more then million questions and i thought i was bad :lol: but some very interesting questions :?: I wish I could help you but I,m not the right person for the answers you seek.
The electrical componet waaaay over my head,I dont like getting zappped,it hurts :lol: but none the less your on to something?I strongly agree with you on that.
"you may just find another completely different use for opal, such as quartz and other minerals in industry, as it is made of the same basic silicon dioxide material!"I like what you said :idea: These are such great ideas you have, i definately going to copy this for later reference,This can be very helpful with the canadian opal,it does share some of the same properties in the formation.
You should ask voltaire for some imput,very smart fellow :)
Keep it up, I am following this,it is very interesting.
Todd


PinkDiamond wrote:A lot of what you say could very well be Chris, and you're right about tourmalines, but they're not just piezoelectric, getting their charge from pressure, they're also pyroelectric, and can also build up a static charge by being warmed. The German's called them "aschentrekkers" because of their ability to draw ashes from their pipes due to the static electric charge they get. Here's a bit of info from the link below:

"Tourmalines have early been recognized to have special properties. For example, people noticed that one can remove ashes from pipes after smoking, when the turmaline was rubbed before. In Holland this lead to the name "Aschentrekker" (ash-drawer). This property is a consequence of the chemical elements found in tourmaline and the way these elements are arranged. In this case the properties are due to the interplay of the charge of the elements building the elementary cell in the crystall and the geometry in which they are arranged. The property of the "Aschentrekker", namely that changes in temperature can charge the crystal, is actually of technical importance. Slices of tourmaline are used as temperature sensores at temperatures of several hundrets of degree Celcius. This effect is called pyro-electricity. You can also charge a tourmaline by pressurizing it - an effect called piezo-electricity."

http://www.kristallkluft.de/Tourmaline.html

OK, back to opals. I don't want to detour this thread, but I did want to point out that tourmaline is very unique and has special properties, just like these opals. ;)


GemAddicts wrote:
NovaScotiaCreations wrote:That's interesting Rockranger,
Possibly, the older an opal is in the ground, the more stable it becomes in general.

Yes, this is how it works. BUT, it only counts if the opal is in the ground closer to the surface. The deeper you go the more "unstable" they get again, at least that is what I have always been taught, and so far in my personal experience, it has held true.


Rockranger wrote:I find Gemaddicts reply to be quite honest the same.The top layers allways are colorless,flacky,bleached-driedout crap.There seems to be that fine middle area where it all comes together,as he stated the deeper after the middle area seems to lose its color ,stability and thin out disperse back to host rock.Thats what i have noticed when mining.It hasnt gotten deep enough to excavate in a mine style,more or less surface extraction.
I,d would like to just slice the whole bluff if it was possible,but I,ll keep dreaming :) IT sure would help in seeing how it followed the cavities in the mountain.
Ground xray to expensive right now.
I would need a team from national geograpic to pay the expenses :lol: :idea: :lol:
RR


PlanetOpal wrote:This probably deserves a new thread but I've always been a bit sceptical about opal being formed over a short period of time.
Can someone point me to a picture of grown opal that looks like *real* opal?

Len Cram has apparently grown opal in jars that look like the real deal, but I'm yet to see proof of this.
I'm also very sceptical because Len sits firmly in the christian belief of a created universe versus the evolutionalist theory....

Until I see proof I'm firmly on the side of the scientists...plus it's nice to think my little opal collection was formed when, or long before dinosaurs ruled the earth...


PinkDiamond wrote:I've read articles about opalization occurring over short periods of time too, as well as oil, and it makes perfect sense when you read about the replenishing oil wells, one of which is owned by a friend of one of my friends. So if oil can be made quickly, why can't opals.

And I was just saying you'd have to verify that at least one root was actually a root, before you could take it any farther, no? I'm no Nancy Drew, so if I'm wrong, speak up. I'm open to hearing what everyone has to say. ;)


brightlights wrote:
NovaScotiaCreations wrote:
PinkDiamond wrote:I've read articles about opalization occurring over short periods of time too, as well as oil, and it makes perfect sense when you read about the replenishing oil wells, one of which is owned by a friend of one of my friends. So if oil can be made quickly, why can't opals.

And I was just saying you'd have to verify that at least one root was actually a root, before you could take it any farther, no? I'm no Nancy Drew, so if I'm wrong, speak up. I'm open to hearing what everyone has to say. ;)


I think alot of people read a gemology book, and then suddenly, they "ARE" a gemologist, I'm NOT one of those people...lol.


Ahh-uhm... Pink is a gemologist. :D I think she is just trying to keep an open mind until we get confirmations.

Also, I don't see the title of gemologist as someone that has all the answers. Maybe most of the common ones, but gemology is the STUDY of GEMS. You can't study without posing questions and challenging the status quo. Otherwise you just become a parrot and that would be more like parrotology, and that just sounds silly and doesn't help us here at all. :lol:

I think the problem is that there has been accepted methods that things work by, such as opal formation. Occasionally, there may be more than one way something happens. This maybe the case here. There is definitely the standard oxide formations, (Plume, dendrites - source of the thread) but this seems to be different. IS it root? Well, you could go the walks like the duck route, but until someone can blast it with the appropriate big boy toy, we are really all just guessing.

Why can't it be root? We know bone can be opalized. Some wood fossilized and then opal filled voids (conch from V.V.) So the simple solution might be that somehow this stuff fossilized, and then the void that it was in was filled with opal. gas voids from volcanic action, roots grow into it, that is eventually fossilized and later opal comes along? I don't think it takes a very big leap of faith. The question I think is not that it could or couldn't happen, or even how, but more to the point of had anyone confirmed it is fossil, 100%? Confirm it first then make theories to get from A->B

The only reason anyone assumed that it couldn't was if the plant was plant when the opal filled the void. I'm wondering if it was already fossilized first, that would do it. Or a low temp formation of this CT opal. But again, I have no info or numbers, just my W.A.G....

Just for the record for anyone that keeps score, I'm not a paleontologist or geologist or gemologist. But, I am a dad, so to my 6yr old, I know everything and don't you forget it! :lol:


NovaScotiaCreations wrote:Ahh-uhm... Pink is a gemologist. :D I think she is just trying to keep an open mind until we get confirmations.

Ooops...lol.

There I go sticking my foot in my mouth again!

I hate it when I write something, and then realize later that it can be taken a completely different way than it came across, the way "I" meant it was totally different than it came out!
What I MEANT about being a gemologist was NOT directed at Pink at all, I already knew she was a gemologist, or "suspected" she was, my comment was about other people NOT on this site who seem to profess to know everything, but do little or no research to back up what they are talking about, what I was TRYING to say was how everyone here on this site is very well educated and do not talk out of their "you know where", and I trust the input that everyone has here!

There, I finally said what I MEANT to say, geesh, I gotta get more sleep! LOL

You all are right though, as "until" there is actually a scientific test performed on these opals to determine their makeup, and in this case their "content", everything is just a speculation or a "guess" as to what it may be, and the best way to determine that without testing is simple visual observation and investigations.

I am personally scouring the internet constantly for new Welo info, but surprisingly, there is VERY little info about it out there, from a real gemological angle anyhow, in my opinion, it is actually a very poorly investigated stone, and much more time and energy is spent on marketing mining and selling it than exploring it's creation and it's true gemological properties.

There is ALOT we still just do not know about this stone, and I think the key to really understanding it is to first and foremost understand how it REALLY is formed.

Does anyone know if there ARE any studies or published papers on the formation of Welo opal that was published by someone who is a gemologist or a scientist of some type?

Chris ;)

PS, Sorry Pink if that "did" come out wrong, I just was not writing properly, the old horse kick to the head effecting me again I think...LOL You know I definitely trust your opinions on things right? ;)


PinkDiamond wrote:LOL! I didn't read it like that; good thing for you Chris! :lol:

Not only are there armchair gemologists, but there are also plenty who never keep up with what's going on in the industry, and with new treatments and synthetics hitting the market almost daily, you've got to stay current, which means you never stop learning; like Steve, as a doctor, has to stay current on everything in his field, and so do gemologists or they'll both be making a wrong diagnosis. :lol:

I'm a gemologist for all of about 4 years now, so I still have so much to learn it gets overwhelming at times, and I definitely don't profess to know it all; as a matter of fact, it amazes me when I do know the answers to people's gemological questions because there's so much to learn, and experience counts for a lot. ;)

I think it's fair to say I learn something new about gems every day, and I rely on the pros I rub elbows with to explain things to me, so no worries Chris. I'm not offended in the least, and know all I can do is give my best effort to come up with right answers, and learn; especially from my mistakes, and I make plenty of them, but hopefully not the same ones twice. :lol:

We're all here to learn, share and grow, and we have a fine group of members who make valuable contributions to the group. Welos are new, and as frequently happens with new finds, they hit the market before the trade knows much about them, so we all get to learn together, and it's fun to get in on the ground floor with this one since opals are already our passion.

There are already 2 investigations going on; into the plume phenomena, as well as the structure of hydrophane opal-CT, which is what Welo is, and I've written in a few threads here about what I read in papers on hydrophane structure, since it's so different from the stacked spheres in Aussie opal. But such papers are hard to find, and when you do they generally cost about $35 or more to purchase when I Googled searching for them. Some members have been kind enough to answer my questions, and others sent me articles and papers that were probably scanned, and took me a few nights and many hours to decipher the scrambled words as best I could, and they were just forwarded to the ISG, who will be looking into this for us, but not until mid January. If we get lucky, maybe they won't be able to resist checking them with their RAMAN, but we'll have to wait and see what happens there, and in the meantime, GemAddicts will be scoping and shooting the plume opal for us to see if we can glean any information from magnification. One member forwarded an inquiry of mine to an associate gemologist in the UK who's apparently writing a book on Welos, and I hoped he would reply, but but so far no. Maybe if we get more information the member will be able to entice him to answer some questions and tell us some of his findings. Keep your fingers crossed on that one.

So that's where we are now, and none of this will happen quickly, and if we try to do the roots in your Welos, that will make a third project, so if anyone else has connections who can help us investigate them it would help, plus we'd have more results to compare, and things would move a bit faster. Wish I could say we'd do yours faster, but these others have been in the works for quite a few weeks now, having started while you were away; but you're on the list if you can wait, and we should start getting information on the structure, which may help answer a few questions. If I come across the threads I where wrote about opal-C morphing into opal-CT, and on into quartz, depending on the temperature of the geological conditions, I'll direct you to it because I think you'll find it interesting.

But please, don't think twice about your post because there's a lot of truth in it, and I didn't take it personally since I didn't just read a book and call myself a gemologist. :lol:

Oh, and BL, thanks for defending my honor. :mrgreen:
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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

GemAddicts wrote:There are a few things that can resemble roots, some crystals as well as rhyolite intrusions, even possibly iron bearing materials. I am open to things, but science tells me that plant matter can NOT withstand the temperatures needed for silicon to be at a liquid state. They may be fossils, agate or even other type of opal replacements, but the odds of it actually being plant matter are very very slim. I am not even sure a branch or root could withstand the temperatures.


Gemjunkie wrote:Refresh my memory. Why do we need molten silicon again? I thought opal can form at much lower temperatures from weathered silica. :?


JimA wrote:Such as "bog" opal?


NovaScotiaCreations wrote:I know for SURE that opal does NOT necessarily need high temperatures to form, this I know from actually doing hands on research.

While I will not make the statement that I've actually "gown" opal in my lab, I will say that there ARE scientists out there doing this, and prof of opal being able to instantaneously growing at low temperatures (Such as what Len Cram apparently did) is to do a simple experiment, take sodium silicate in a liquid form, add an acid of some type, or even minerals or electrolytes, and watch it solidify before your eyes!

Take a look at this:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5453934_grow-opals.html

It's not exactly an "authentic" opal as you and I would consider to be an opal, but it IS the basis for how an opal would form in a "cold" environment.

Maybe I'm mislead, I dunno, I"m not a scientist, but everything I've read thus far about opal growth in the past 10 years and when studying to be a gemologist years ago has led me to believe that opal can grow in many different environments, at many different temperatures, and that's why it is found world wide, and why SO many different types of material can "opalize", and when the conditions are right, it grows!

When you actually do a little science experiment like this one, it really opens your eyes when you see it for yourself about how quickly chemical processes that involve mineral formation can occur, your right though, it really could just be a mineral formation that "looks" like a root, I keep an open mind about everything, but what most scientists also say is that "the simplest solution is usually the correct one", and so if it "looks" like a root to me, and just about everyone I've ever had examine these opals containing roots under a microscope thinks the same thing, I'm leaning towards the "simple" explanation, it looks like a root, so it probably is...lol.

I am "still" convinced that electricity plays a role in the development of opals, the world is one big ball of charged matter, and without charged particles or electrolytes present, nothing forms, that was actually Len Cram's major secret discovery, that a special "electrolyte" from the local earth needed to be present, otherwise, nothing grew!

Like I said, "until" we have done a "destructive" test on one of these opals and actually chemically test these roots with a spectrometer, we just will not know for sure!

Chris ;)


PinkDiamond wrote:Absolutely, Chris. Science is fluid, and new information brings new theories all the time, and having read about Len Cram's experiments here on the forum a few years back, it changed how I started thinking about the process that forms opals. That's a great link with the recipe; maybe I'll try it myself and see what happens since I have most of the ingredients already on hand. It makes me wonder about how it relates to Welos, though, since with them we have the tridymite in opal-C, changing to crystobalite, or opal CT, supposedly depending on the temperature of the geological conditons. So I wonder if it's the geological conditions, or the electrolytes that cause this change. Great food for thought, and thanks for the link so we can do a little experimentation ourselves. ;)


GemAddicts wrote:The electric theory is the same as Len's I believe. I know he has grown opal like this, I am just not sure that is how it occurs in nature, although it may just occur like that, no one knows yet I don't think. No, we do not need molten silica, that was just a part of the point and I was just trying to keep it simple as I have very limtied time on the net or anything anymore, the mixture is still supposedly "warm", but how warm or does warm mean hot? Much opal is formed in Volcanic areas, which leads me to believe it was a much hotter warm. If it was possible for plant materials to still be plant materials inside opal we would have seen it long before now, especially in Mexico considering much of it forms almost identically to the Welo type opal, or at least, the older stuff originally mined in Magdalena, I can not comment on the rest. Just the knowledge of how plant material decomposes in nature, especially when moisture/water is present and knowing how opals and crystals grow, the plant material would have been replaced with opal or some other silica based mineral/material and no longer actually be a plant. While Len can grow opal in little time in his lab, that is also under absolute controlled and perfect conditions, which seldom happens in nature. If the opal is forming I just don't see how it would not replace the plant material like it does everywhere else on the planet. Opal can replace wood and does all around the globe, I have hundreds of pounds of wood opal/opalized wood from all over sitting here to attest to that, lol, I love cutting it, hehe. It replaces the cellular structure of bone, perfect example are those wonderful, but rare, fossilized dino bones that when slabbed you get a wonderful surprise of opal filling the cavities instead of agate. T-Eggs in Oregon with the blue opal are another example, very close to how the opal is formed in Welo and Mexico again, except formed in t-eggs which are volcanic in nature iirc. Also, while opal can form quickly, as shown by Len, if you take note to his research he clearly states that growing is not the difficult part, it is the drying process that is. This is what prevents "new" opal growth of being useful or able to be cut, or the like. That can be seen now by currently mined opal, the deeper in the earth it is mined the more unstable it is, the newer it is the more unstable it is, only the older and closer to the surface material is "dry" enough to do anything with, and considering just how stable Welo is compared to like VV and other Ethiopian opals, it leads me to think it would have to be an older formed material.

I am not saying that plant matter could not happen, anything is possible, I always believe that, and I always go at things with a "fence post balanced" mindset when it comes to scientific things, or even opinions in general, this got drilled in with the entire law enforcement deal, can't judge based off of anything but evidence in hand/sight. The reason I am leaning more towards the doubtful side of it being plant material is because I have handled, microscopically examined, and cut kilos of all different kinds of opals over the last decade and all the details I have read, seen first hand, and experienced all point against it, so I of course lean to this side of it, but my mind is still open, I just need hard proof not speculation, know what I mean? Plant material has never been found in anything aside from Amber and Copal that I am aware of. I have a nice Herkimer Diamond here that you would swear has formed around a stick, but the "stick" is not plant matter in anyway, it is actually an iron based material of some sort.
Image

The plumes are identical to the plumes found in agates, not best example, but only one I have handy:
Image

Just so folks can see, a close up of a dendrite in agate as well(Montana agate to be precise):
Image

Both of which look just like plant material, but neither is, although were thought to be for a long time. Moss agate is another prime example, but I have no sample image for it right now.

I also have to again go back to this Mexican sample, looks like wood material, but in reality is a rhyolite intrusion.
Image

Macro of it:
Image

That is why I just tend to doubt it, because so far all the proof points that way. If more proof arises that points against it, trust me, my opinion will then switch to the "side" that has the most evidence on it. :D


PinkDiamond wrote:Absolutely, Chris. It's that urge to learn more that has brought this wonderful group of opalholics together, and the learning never ceases; at least for me. I love this article on Len Cram's work, and as for his opals being unstable, they didn't sit in the ground for thousands of years drying out slowly, so it's understandable that they wouldn't be 'cured' yet, and be unstable.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... /opals.asp

I think we all love finding out about new possibilities, but I truly hope that 'instant-opals' don't ever make it to market. That would be REAL bad. :?

Oh, and Jamey, that first shot is killer. Way cool! :!:


PlanetOpal wrote:G'day all and hope everyone had a great christmas :D

This book is fascinating, lots of stuff on Len crams work, even a few (black and white) pics of his grown opals.

http://books.google.com/books?id=vGewAk ... &q&f=false

A few pages missing but very readable
Some of Lens theories on opal formation make complete sense when you think about it. the Ionization process etc.

I notice he hasn't offered to submit anything to be lab analysed despite many worldwide requests, however I can also understand why he wants to keep it under wraps until proven 101%

I've gone from sceptical to fence sitter :lol:


brightlights wrote:Following up with GemAddicts post of the material that looks like wood in the mexican opal, but it wasn't...

For those keeping count, I'm still leaning towards no wood in opal and here is another reason why you can't always just trust your eyes. The following picture is some type of fly trapped in a diamond:
InclusionLikeFlyInDiamondBLs.jpg


Amazing, right? Actually, it is just a large inclusion. Here is the link where I found it mentioned in Palagems:

http://www.palagems.com/gem_news_2010_v ... _inclusion

It turns out to be mostly carbon with a pressure cleavage making up the wings. Again, you cannot always just trust your eyes.


PinkDiamond wrote:Oh, that's just phenomenal BL. What a great find! Really proves you can't trust your eyes. Thanks for posting. ;)


PinkDiamond wrote:Gem Addicts now has opalethiopia's opal, and will be taking pics and posting them for us soon, along with his comments on what he sees at high magnification. :D
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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

GemAddicts wrote:I have not gotten pics yet but have gotten a good look under my loupe. The plumes are identical, under a loupe, to those found in the likes of Graveyard Point Plume Agate, for example. The smaller row of plumes with the larger ones projecting out from the row of smaller ones. It is truly amazing! I have not scoped it yet to actually see if any visual clues to how this happened. The front is moving through and supposed to be gone this upcoming week so should be good to go shortly. :). I have a few theories right now, but am keeping them to myself until further examination so I don't have to possibly eat my words, lol. I will also put it under the Ocean Optics as well and get a spectrum analysis of it and compare to other samples and see if any differing characteristics. Nowhere near what a RAMAN can do, but better then nothing, hehe.

Good post on the diamond inclusion. This is a perfect reason as to why I am quite skeptical, as I have seen thousands of inclusions under 10-20x magnifications and to the naked eye that look like plant or animal but are just mineral.


GemAddicts wrote:Well we got the nasty snow and ice and stuff. Now arctic front moving in this evening, supposed to hit 0F or below. :(. I have been pretty knocked out from this crap. But I wanted to get something done for you all so I did manage to get some shots done with my handheld setup using some fairly high magnifications. The pics are not up to my usual par/quality of shots, some are a bit blurry due to my shaky hands and spasms from the rsd right now. But they are not too bad. I am hoping to get it under the Leica Wild M420 and get some nice sharp detailed pics in the next few days as after this arctic front not supposed to be anything more for a few which means I should get a decent break. I also am going to do a spectral analysis using our Ocean Optics spectrophotometer and compare to other opals and see if any thing jumps out, I doubt it, but you never know. So here are the images, again, sorry this batch is not up to my typical standard of quality.

I will start out with a few normal pics showing the full extent and structure of the plumes.
ImageImageImage

A bit more magnification so you can see some of the actual structures and the "cavities", or ghosting, left over from the actual plumes that are now filled with the poc.
ImageImage

Now some extreme magnifications of the plume structures.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

A nice little mimetolith deep inside the plume, see if you can see the face.
Image

This one I added in a bluish outline around the plume structures. These same structures are the ones that light up with the poc when properly aligned with the light.
Image

Here is a very extreme close up of one of these plume structures.
Image

One more showing the structures again.
Image

There is little doubt in my mind now that these are not any plant nor animal type leftovers. These are most definitely plumes just like those found in plume agates. As to how and why I am still researching these possibilities, but do have a few "leads". Either way this is IMHO a pretty rare "fluke" and doubt it is going to be anywhere near a common occurrence. I am just in sheer awe! This is one of the most challenging things I have shot as well! Hopefully these "preview" pics will satisfy some hunger until get under the M420 this week.


PinkDiamond wrote:Awesome Jamey, thanks! But since they're cut off due to their size, if you resize them to around 650, the whole thing might/should fit on the page. They're fabulous, and even with your shakes right now they're 110% better than what I took. :lol:

Hope you feel better asap. ;)


Rockranger wrote:Are those ever incredible shots....... 8)
It looks like a coral garden :shock:
Told ya it was a bad one heading south :roll: :lol: -30 below today and colder tonight and still friggen snowing....45cm that last couple days and more adding.
No break until next week :(
havent seen this much snow in 20 years they say and were only half way through.Dam plow finally dug us out on tuesday. :evil:


opalethiopia wrote:WOW! those photos are amazing! I knew the opal was special... but your pics really show the stone at its best :)
I'm sure the more you look and with the different scopes you use, the more we will be able to see the detail and get a better understanding to what it actually is.
When I first saw it, I just knew it had to be some sort of plume. I have never ever seen an opal with a pattern like that. I have seen plumes in agates and such... but there is actual plant matter inside those stones. This is somewhat of a hologram of the actual plume... i don't know how that's possible but I love it :shock:
Hopefully when I get the stone back and put it back up for auction, maybe I can use some of your photos in the actual listing?? Maybe a couple of colorful close-up shots??
I am very intrigued and very please :)
Thanks again,
Marc
opalethiopia


GemAddicts wrote:Marc,
Plume agates actually are not plant matter, they just look like it, they are actual metal oxides, mineral growths, and I forget the other off hand.

Of course you can use any pics if the help you. I know I will be bidding, lol.

Thanks all. I wasn't even going to post these because of the lack in iq compared to most of my shots but a little birdie told me to anyways, lol.

Jamey

P.s. Marc, I will see if I can get a video for you as well so folks can see the true effects this thing has. It truly belongs a museum imho! One true masterpiece from Mother Nature.


PlanetOpal wrote:Great pics GA..looking at them I'm wondering if the structure of honeycomb welo isn't much different, only the cells (or branches if you like) are on a larger scale? It would be interesting to section one of those plume on 90 degree angle and see if produces the honeycomb effect..hope that makes sense.


GemAddicts wrote:Yes, makes perfect sense. You may just be on to something there! I will see if can get a pic like that.


gingerkid wrote:ULTRA - 8) :!: :!: shots, jamey!!!! i see the face, too, looks like a mask, right behind the very bright plume. 8) thanks for posting the photos for us to admire!! and for outlining the other plumes, "ghosting," for us to see in the opal. :D 8)
jamey, can i please use the 2nd photograph for our desktop??

cannot wait to see the vid of this baby in action!!


brightlights wrote:GA, What about making some of these available really big for monitor backgrounds? :D

GemAddicts wrote:A nice little mimetolith deep inside the plume, see if you can see the face.


Actually, I see a few faces in there. Does that mean I need to see a psychiatrist? At least they are not talking to me, so I think I may be "ok", for now... Eventually they will be say "Bid on us... Bid on us..." :lol:
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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

GemAddicts wrote:A few more pics as well as two videos. Not the greatest again, but not under microscope yet, sorry.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Videos:



PinkDiamond wrote:Nice work Jamey! It's tough to make that thing light up for the camera, and it's as slippery as a greased pig so it's tough to hold onto. :lol:

I like the video in the low light. When they fire up it's really noticeable. Thanks! :D


brightlights wrote:Just a heads up for folks... Not much time left, but here is another opal that looks like it is Plume. You can see from the pics that it has a cool "fern" look, but I still think it looks like the plumes, especially if you look at the video. It has gone past my current pricepoint, so I'll post it incase anyone else is interested.

http://www.opalauctions.com/auctions/nr ... tem-259709

BTW, in the interest of Full disclosure, I have bought some wonderful opals from this seller on both the Eyecandy Opal and Topshelf Opals auctions. I have talked to him a few times, but I've not been ask to post it, I am doing that on my own.


NovaScotiaCreations wrote:All,
Not to get too far off track, but since we "are" talking about how opals are gown, you might find this interesting!

http://www.mysticopal.com/

This person is selling "CUSTOM GROWN" opals, or do it yourself kits, not sure which yet, have to read more, but never the less, looks like he is following good old "Len's" tricks, and selling the "unhardened" opals in little glass vials.

As was previously mentioned, the difficult part about growing opal is the hardening part, apparently it takes months, and still does not yeild a stable gem, unless I'm missing something.

Take a look, tell me what you think, maybe we are all in the wring business here and should be growing them instead, hehe.

Chris ;)


PinkDiamond wrote:Hope you get a break in the weather and can get some relief GA. :(

That's a cool site Chris, but the fact that they can't be hardened makes them pretty worthless, as the $19.95 price indicates since they're just a novelty. It takes high pressure and high temperature along with time to harden them, which is why they have to sell them in glass vials

They say:
"The particles used in our Opals are between 275 nanometers and 325 nanometers in diameter."

In precious opal, the size of the spheres range from about 150 to 400 nanometers, which produces play of color through diffraction in the visible light range of 400 to 700 nanometers, so it's the size of the particles they use that allows opalization to appear when they settle since they're within the range necessary to diffract light. It's a cool novelty though, and I bet they'd be a hit with kids because they can observe them forming, and since it doesn't take long they'll be done before they lose interest in them. :wink:


GemAddicts wrote:Here are a few more pics from the scope. Still not greatest, sorry. Just been rough here. I have one last option tomorrow and then mailing it out. Will continue my research as I will have everything I need and have a few other samples being loaned in route as well. Pretty good idea as to what it was, how it formed, and so forth, just need to finish my ducks in a row, lol. These are just from the S750 Sony P&S through the M420, that is why not as good as my dSLR through it, but was not capable of it, sorry again.

This one gives a much better view of the structure inside the opal that the poc plumes flash in when the light hits them correctly
Image

The following are just some more plume shots displaying their poc, almost like those laser images, lol.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage


GemAddicts wrote:They were all done with a P&S, just digiscoped through the Leica Wild M420, lol. I wasn't up to trying to hook up the dSLR and proper setup. Sorry. :(.


opalethiopia wrote:I am having a great time here in Arizona. Got my first parcel of rough. Actually found a few surprises!
I will post photos in the morning... you know those brown things that are on the outside of some rough? Kind of like a film? Well I have a rough stone that has the brown on it and it's in the shape of plumes! I will get the photos ASAP :)
Tucson show is going well :)
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Re: Plume Opal

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opalethiopia wrote:What do you guys think??

BrownSpotsWeloOpalEthiopia.jpg


PinkDiamond wrote:That really looks like the brown stuff I asked about, that in the smaller sizes looks like spores growing to me, and it appears to be on the surface, rather than inside the stone. So I don't think they're anything like the plumes in your other stone. Will be interesting to see what others think. ;)


brightlights wrote:It does look similar... Maybe the oxide formed in a crack and now you have one side of the crack? You could always find someone that might have access to a petri dish and see if you can "grow" anything from swabbing it. At least you'd confirm if it was organic or an Iron Oxide. I'm leaning towards the oxide in the crack formation on that one directly above.

I guess a cheaper organic test would be to lick it and see how you feel 24hours later... :lol:


JungKee wrote:Opalethiopia: That's dendrites, a kind of manganese mineral formation. Common in cracks, can sometimes eat into the stone from either side of the crack too.

Rockranger: I sent some stones to Voltaire on this forum, and experienced some cracking issues. As he lives in a very frigid climate we decided to test out whether it was the temp or the stones that were to blame. I sent some more stones to him that I knew from earlier experiments to be stable in separate parcels. One envelope packed like the first ones, that was going to be opened at arrival, and one more heavily wrapped that was going to sit unopened for a day and night before opening. The first parcel showed one cracked stone, the largest of the lot, while all the stones in the second parcel were intact.

Thus I think it is likely to be like you said, that stones sent through extreme temps should be given some time to warm up gradually.


SwordfishMining wrote:The "roots" really are roots here in Virgin Valley. If you look closely you can see the vegetable structure of them. They obviously grew through a future cavity (some matter or soft mass usually a stick in the years after it was buried and before complete burying over the countless centuries) then later, when opal formed later, it formed slowly preserving every detail of the cast and things in it. The roots may have opalized first or be hollow or the same opal that surrounds them. Naturally I can't find my jar of green and blue common opals that have roots though and around them half cast on the surface to take pictures. In Rhyolite they are tube structures as are found in agates or jasper's that are formed in hot flows from fluid circulation. (This first one is of botroidial psilomelene or some related manganese material on the surface at cracks.) In the white opals, they still have a blue tone so the black showing through it gives the opal a blue tone instead of letting your eye go get lost in white. Obvious secondary mineral enrichment (Opal and uranium both are formed also by steeply dipping faults circulating silica and mineral rich water past permeable layers and perched lake beds here. In the Govt dating of the Uraniferrous opal from the Peacock they came up with over a million four years for a foot cross section of a nodule of the fluorescent green. I thought I read somewhere that white opal is white because of manganese oxides? So those are just sulfides not ferns, except by description.
RootsInVVopalSwordfish.JPG

On this next one they are starting in a frothy semi opal and extend down into solid opal as plumes having been formed along with the opal or the opal after them.
RootsInVVopalSwordfish1.JPG

I wish I had a photo of my ex-wifes' doublet pendant Don Dietrich made of Rainbow Ridge opal. It was not squares so it could not be called Harlequin but it was like the dendrites were painted ferns in an ocean scene. Not likely to ever see that one again....I sold a similar one to Gaumers museum in Red Bluff, Ca. A black nodule off the Swordfish that was just a pattern of painted dendrites that changed colors. It too had the look of opalized dendrites and is on display (in a dome).

This last one high magnification. If opal can preserve a cell like this it can preserve root surfaces.
RootsInVVopalCloseupCellsSwordfish.jpg

or hide in the log like these furries. I think this one was precious cachalon but I'm not positive.
RootsInVVopalWoodCellFuzziesSwordfish.jpg


PinkDiamond wrote:Those are great shots John. It's good to have verification that roots or tree matter can be encased in opal, but I don't see anything in there but roots, and you mention plumes, so I'd like to know where they are if you can point them out. We've been calling these images plumes, from opalethiopia's first post:
PlumeOpal7duplicate.jpg


So are you referring to those formations being in there, or something else, and can you show us where they are in the pic? Thanks! Enjoyed your post very much, and would love to see the ones in your wife's opal if you can pull it off. :D


Rockranger wrote:Pink,I think he is refering to the one that looks like the plume or colored oxcides that look they were painted on a rock.I was just reading it again recently but that short term memory kicked in and now i cant find the thread. :D


PinkDiamond wrote:I just want to make sure we're all referring to the same thing when we say plumes, because if we're talking about a different phenomena, we're all going to be confused. So making sure we're all on the same page seemed worthwhile. ;)


SwordfishMining wrote:Yep we are talking about the same thing. My photos did not have roots this one does. virginvalleyopal.com/18fbc4d0.jpg is a small dome that has a branch and a root wandering down the middle. When I find my killer pastels I'll post a photo. All I have at hand were opals from West Coast Mining. To see how good it gets this is the page. wcmining.com/ws/agates.html These grow in the opal and are 3 dimensional. They are formed of manganese plumes in the gel. After the opal formation they can form again just on the surface and never penetrate. The shape in the opal is that shape if not that mineral. It may be a minor constituent that gave the structure. My photos lack the subject we are talking about and discuss the way it forms. 3D or 2D in manganese but not haw it makes opal form plumes. I didn't give credit for the electron microscope photos. George Mustoe of Eastern Washington University Geology Dept investigated opal formation and I provided specimens. He published his paper I thought.


PinkDiamond wrote:Wow John! They are fabulous. And I'm glad to hear we're all on the same page talking about the plumes. :D


SwordfishMining wrote:This is funny. I just bought the bottom of a pick tray at the show this weekend. (160 dirty gem gms out of 264 in tray- lotta earring sized stones.) There was a single chunk of dendrite opal there that could have come out of the mines here. It looked like white opal and had the black dendrites which are probably manganese growing 3D in the gel before solidification. Might go clear to give a good picture. On my list....

The question for you now what is the ceiling for this pattern in precious opals. It is not going to be a big deposit only rare specimens If I know opal. Just enough to suck up all the money made looking for more; LOL. tis Here is a link to an opal from Mexico with the rhyolite tubes but they have real names. In YM Company store.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mexican-Contral ... ltDomain_0


GemAddicts wrote:I'm sorry, but there IS NO actual plant matter in the material. Any matter that may have been plant or animal would have long been replaced with other minerals. To date I know of NO actual plant nor animal matter preserved in opal, it has never been discovered that I am aware of. Also, some of what is being shown as roots are just a form of dendrite and not roots, I have some VV material with the dendrites and have done quite extensive work on these in both studying and cutting and while some are replacements some are just dendrites.

But there are NO plant nor animal materials found in opal. Any that were have been replaced by other minerals or opal itself. And a replacement of something is NOT the same as it still being a plant or animal.

I hate to keep arguing and asserting this point, but it is a typical scam used by sellers now to make their opals "more valuable" because they have a plant or animal in them. This has been ongoing for some time, and when threads like this happen and things are not clearly spelled out it adds more fuel to the fire.

Also, plumes do indeed grow in any quartz/silica family! Dendrites, plumes, and moss are all the same identical thing, metal oxides growing into the material in question. Depending on the oxide and the cavities available dictates whether or not they form plumes, moss, or dendrites. Fortifications are a specific type of agate but not all agate is fortification agate. If the base material is silica and has surface reaching crevices visible or even microscopic, plumes, dendrites, and moss can grow in it! I will have more info on this at a later date with some things that will blow many folks' minds when they see/find out!

Also, agate IS a chalcedony. ;).


PinkDiamond wrote:Robert James at the ISG has opalethiopia's opal with the plumes, and now that he's gotten time to look at it, this was his initial reaction:

"This is the most fantastic opal I have ever seen. I am glad that I waited so I can have time tomorrow to take proper photographs of this. Just outstanding!"

And this came in last night:
"This is fantastic material. I have the Raman Microscope almost ready to go. Should be finally back late tomorrow. I want to get some really good images and do the Raman then I will get this on the way back to you.

Thank you for letting me play with this. Rare to see something this unusual."


So looks like we're on our way to getting some great shots and the Raman data on it. He thought he'd have it back before now, but he migrated his site to a new server and has run into problems, but if the Raman is being hooked up today, it shouldn't be long now. I just hope whatever we get is worth the wait! :D
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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

opalethiopia wrote:That's great news that he likes the stone so much!
Any comments on these photos?

RootsPlantMatterWeloOpalEthiopia1.jpg

RootsPlantMatterWeloOpalEthiopia2.jpg


GemAddicts wrote:Could be anything from an opal replacement of a twig/branch to a rhyolite/sandstone type intrusion to any number of mineral growths that resemble branches and twigs and such, there are quite a few. Sorry, but I can not recall off top of my head which mineral growths they are exactly.

Here are some more, although not an opal:

specimen:
Image

Close-Ups, sure looks like plant material huh!? ;)
ImageImageImage

One more that is part opal, part agate, and part T-Egg, hehe. Notice the growths are very close to yours.
Image

Looks like plants doesn't it?
Image


gingerkid wrote:there goes jamey again tempting us with the pics of that plume agate?? i think its plume agate in the 1st pic?


GemAddicts wrote:You got it GK. It is old stock Priday Ranch plume agate cut from a thunderegg.


PinkDiamond wrote:Robert James at the ISG dedicated tonight's chat to your plume opal, opalethiopia. He's also going to feature it in his newsletter, so I'll post a link to that when he sends it out, plus, once he gets his copyright on the photos he's going to send them to me and let me post them here on the board. I think y'all are going to love them. :D

And there is one test that's not usually done on opals that he performed, and amazingly, the results he got likely point to the plumes being iron oxide. We pretty much settled on them being metal oxides, but he believes them to specifically be iron oxide, which would explain all the reds and greens in the stone. He got some fantastic shots of the plumes, in blue, and kaleidoscopic colors that were breathtaking, and the ISG students/grads all wanted it in poster size, so he'll likely make posters of it available. I saw some killer shots of it tonight that I can't wait for y'all to see. :!:

So now that he's found some information for us, it will be coming back very soon, and I would guess that it will probably be back in opalethiopia's hands sometime next week, and I'll let y'all know as soon as the newsletter is posted. :wink:


GemAddicts wrote:From researching the Welo area and talking to a few die hard Welo folks who gave me a nudge in the right direction by JK, my findings lead much more towards a precious opal pseudomorph after Psilomelane plumes. ALL plumes, dendrites, and moss would be metal oxides, or sagenitic, based from my understanding. So, it will be interesting to see the results and find out why iron oxides was the choice over manganese oxides. It could be either since the Geologic data/reports for the Welo area shows lots of iron oxides as well as Manganese Oxides (a Department of Geology and Geophysics, Addis Ababa University, P.O. Box 1176, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia and BRGM, Mineral Resources Division, 3, avenue C. Guillemin, B.P. 6009, 45060 Orléans cedex 2, France). Should be interesting. Looking forward to answers one way or the other.


Here's the ISG newsletter featuring opalethiopia's gorgeous plume opal:

http://www.schoolofgemology.com/ISGComm ... hane-Opals

*For those of you who don't already know, I'm Crystal Star on other forums. Cat's out of the bag now. :mrgreen:[/quote]
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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

PlanetOpal wrote:Looking forward to the pics Pink.

Going slightly off topic, here's a nice dendrite welo I just finished..love it!



PinkDiamond wrote:That's stunning PO! Wow!! :!:

All the pics are in the newsletter at this point PO.

And the answer to your question about the poster is in the article ginge. :lol:


Gemjunkie wrote:
PinkDiamond wrote:Here's the ISG newsletter featuring opalethiopia's gorgeous plume opal:

http://www.schoolofgemology.com/ISGComm ... hane-Opals

*For those of you who don't already know, I'm Crystal Star on other forums. Cat's out of the bag now. :mrgreen:

Hi CS! Oh, my poor Brian. :lol:


gingerkid wrote:enjoyed the ISG article; and thank you for posting the link to the article, PD/CS!! oh, i love the poster. 8) pretty cool that he found one that he had purchased, too, at tuscon.

your welo is gorgeous, PO, and i like those trees growing in it!! what's the chatter in the background, a bird??? then i heard a dog?? :P

Gemjunkie wrote:
PinkDiamond wrote:*For those of you who don't already know, I'm Crystal Star on other forums. Cat's out of the bag now. :mrgreen:

Hi CS! Oh, my poor Brian. :lol:

:lol:


GemAddicts wrote:Thx for the link to the article PD. I can't wait for the chemical analysis to see if it is Manganese Oxide(precious opal after psilomelane) or indeed is iron oxides and exactly which ones.

PO, that opal with dendrites is simply stunning, I love it!!!!


JungKee wrote:
GemAddicts wrote:
Gemjunkie wrote:I'm getting lost in abbreviations, who's JK again? :?

JungKee, from over at GO, I believe he is a member here as well.


Yeah, I am! Although not so active on any forum anymore as I'd like to lately!

Thanks for the link to the article, I picked a batch and checked them in the spectroscope just now and it does look interesting! Has anyone else looked too? In my pieces some of the absorption lines varies considerably with depth, colour, transparency, surface texture and even moves a lot with the angle of incident light. Some other lines stay put though. Preliminarily, it seems that the absorption lines scatter with increased depth and/or clarity, and broaden with increased depth of colour. There is still lines in the colourless varieties as well, which could be an indication of really heavy trace elements or certain structural traits. All in all, this leads me to believe that some of the absorption could be due to the structure of the opal and some to its composition. It certainly deserves more investigation!


GemAddicts wrote:JK,
I will be doing more as soon as I can get a hold of some rough at a good price, lol. I want to actually do some in depth testing on them with my OceanOptics Spectrometer unit. I wanted to with this one but was not doing very well health wise at that point and was barely able to get done what I got done, lol. Plumes all look very similar but under magnification they sometimes have differing patterns to them. I did compare the ones in this stone to quite a few of the plume agates I have here and the closest match was the psilomelane plumes I had here in two stones and after you tipped me off to that I did the geological research and found there are lots of manganese oxides from that area, hence why I went with it. It could very well be what metal oxide causes them in one may not be the same in the next as well. Any metal oxide can grow plumes/dendrites/mosses and Sagenite can grow dendrites. So only some more research is going to tell the full story.


brightlights wrote:I was looking over something tonight and happened down a rabbit hole and found another one on auction here at OA that looks like they may be related to the dendrites that started this whole thread. :) It is from OpalMagic. It is a live auctions, so tread lightly and I think the first one here is the most stunning:

http://www.opalauctions.com/auctions/ethiopian-opals/item-269099

Not only do you have the cell pattern in it, but it looks like the cell pattern is related to the dendrites in the opal. You'll see the dendrites in the solid part of the body in the picture above. This is a guess because it is not my opal, but it looks like it is a similar process.


PinkDiamond wrote:Yes, that's way cool PO! I wonder if it will sell for that price, being about 1/3 the size of opalethiopia's. And speaking of our favorite plume opal, it should be back home now, but I don't know if he's there to know it's back, since I haven't heard anything yet; but it should be there so it will likely be back on the auction block again soon. :D
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Re: Plume Opal

Post by PinkDiamond »

GemAddicts wrote:Oh yeah, that is all dendrites! With what appears to even be a plume in there too! And with the POC being again related to the dendrites/plumes, it supports the precious opal replacement of the metal oxides theory yet again. Very interesting. It may not even be a replacement as I've been doing a lot of research in to this for this project as well as another I am working on, and the dendrites/plumes could have formed by the metal oxides and prior to being fully formed have had the metal oxide source removed/taken away/washed away/whatever from the opal and in this case the dendrites and plumes already forming would typically stop and the process would actually reverse and they would leach back out of the opal leaving their pockets behind and then those pockets filled with precious opal. There seems to be quite a few ways that this can happen, but IMHO, with the details most of these dendrites and plumes have in them of the original iron oxide dendrites and plumes, I believe it is the initial theory that stands correct as I just do not believe they would be so detailed in their forming if the process was not completed, but I will be testing this theory soon enough. ;).


GemAddicts wrote:
PinkDiamond wrote:I wonder if it will sell for that price, being about 1/3 the size of opalethiopia's.

IMHO, I doubt it. Mainly because it does not have the effect and beauty of those like our fav one. This one has an entirely different type of formation in the end. It is almost like an opal cameo (where they cut the thin black onyx or whatever with the design and then epoxy it over the opal doublet.. sorry forget the exact name off hand) where as our fav one and the one I saw sell prior to it had the plumes hidden and only really showed to the naked eye with the play of color happened, that is what made them totally unique IMHO. This piece is still unique but it just does not come close to the WOW FACTOR of the others.


Artfldgr wrote:ok...

i will weigh in..

LOTS of things can make the shapes that you see...
our minds associate that with whatever we are familiar with...
we are most familiar with trees and other branching forms, and so we associate.
the shape in the stone also resembles coral.

but there are lots of things that can make specific dendrite tree structures...

and i am going to go way way way out on a limb and put forth one of the oddest ways..
and the way is related to geology a bit... but it would be so rare that no one would think of it..

Image

the above is what happens when high voltage is passed through acrylic.

however, in nature... they are called Fulgerites...
Image

here are scars on a sidewalk
Image

so its possible, and this is my two cents, that an area that contained opals, was struck by electircal discharge
probably not lightning.. but more likely eruption related..

like at this link for volcanoes
Image
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... kirishima/

of course... no one has thought of what such events would do... and would they leave such finger prints.

however, a fulgerite type hit, could vaporize the silica in that pattern out into other open areas.
then material inflowed into the empty places to fill them up with spheres..

the size is not the point...
the majority of the discharge could have through the sand, and only the tip went into the area of the opal

the point was trying to figure out what could make a void of that shape..
and not leave something behind..

if this was the source...
that opal would be so much more rare than it already is!!!

but one would have to answer whether a lightning strike, or a eruption strike could do it.
we could test it... :shock:

i am not saying this is it
but in our search for dendritic things, this is something people miss
and in volcanic areas, its something people forget happens.
:D


opalethiopia wrote:Just to give a heads up... I will finally be listing the Welo Plume Opal on the NR reserve auction block as promised. I know it took a long time, but I am finally able to let it go. I will be listing the opal in the next two days for a 2 week listing.

opal is relisted http://www.opalauctions.com/auctions/nr ... tem-408059


PinkDiamond wrote:The plumes were determined to be iron oxides, based on the spectrum

PlumeOpalIroxOxideSpectrum.jpg
PlumeOpalIroxOxideSpectrum.jpg (10.02 KiB) Viewed 6445 times


Ironically, one does not usually use a spectroscope on opals, and it was after exhausting all the other means of identifying it that the owner of the ISG got that spectrum and deduced it was likely iron oxides. We decided it was likely oxides causing them early on, so it was nice to hear they were probably iron oxides. :D


End copied thread from old forum

*extraneous non-pertinent posts omitted
PinkDiamond
ISG Registered Gemologist


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